The final discussion: Buy or Download?

[Kayar]

This is totally problematic, though.

If we apply the same principles to other fields, it simply wouldn't stand trial. The gaming community is being slighted here.

First case in point: A drug hits the market that cures all disease. The manufacturer sells a few bottles, which hits the media with a frenzy, and then suddenly it becomes available only to those people who are related to the employees of the manufacturing company. This is not "unfair" because the manufacturer can do whatever they want with their IP. But how do you think the public will respond to this favoritism? What do you think the courts will rule?

Second case in point: A company designs a 100% foolproof firewall network system and sells the "box set" to retail stores all over the world. Those boxes fly off the shelves like Halo did. The hype is incredible. Next thing you know, all traces of the software disappears for the Mac OS X Server system, and the only way you can use the firewall system and the upgraded versions is by using a PC. Consider the implications of that situation.

I think these examples are analogous to our situation, right? Consider all the hype that surrounded Halo. Granted, Halo was originally designed for Mac until Microsoft came along...

This analogy is wrong. Bungie doesn't see it that way, Microsoft doesn't see it that way, and likely neither does Gearbox or Macsoft. Halo 1 is not a cure-all, because Halo 2 and 3 were released, and were made so as to be superior to their predecessor. Thus, we have a cure-all, and then two new versions of this cure-all, meant as improvements. What is going to sell better, the old cure-all, which in fact does not "cure all," or the newer version which has been streamlined? Halo 1 cannot be considered a 100% foolproof firewall network system either, as the difference between a game and a firewall network system is that the game WILL have new additions, a 100% fool-proof firewall system would sell until everyone who's going to buy one has it, and then the company is stuck unable to sell, whereas with the game and its sequels everything is always new and interesting so long as new games are released, thus the old begins to fall behind and fails to satisfy.

We also have to factor in the fact that, even if Halo was originally designed for Mac, the franchise is now in its console iterations (the sequels again) on Xbox. Since this has been so successful for them, it's going to continue on the Xbox. They'll take the conservative path which they know works and gets them money. The fact that Microsoft is in control now anyway makes this a certainty. The prospect of any Halo game making an appearance on any platform not belonging to Xbox in the future is now moot.

[Altimit01]

Neither case is analogous. Halo is a luxury item and so doesn't qualify for the first. It is also not a mission critical item so the second is invalid as well. Even so, there is no reason a private entity should be required to serve a product.

There is also a distinct difference between limiting access artificially (as in the first case) and having to deal with actual barriers of entry (such as different operating systems). In the first doing so is discouraged by most free-trade laws/treaties/agreements and even if it isn't prohibited, it is often defeated by resellers utilizing the first-sale doctrine and similar laws. Refusing to sell product because someone happens to be a reseller is also against many anti-trust acts. In the case of software, there are real obstacles to servicing all systems, and therefor there is a cost associated with servicing each distinct system.

Finally you should also consider that Halo:PC is no longer supported period. The v1.08 patch for PC and the 2.0.3 for OSX were done because the guys at bungie and macsoft care about their game. They removed the CD requirement and fixed a small bug in the program that allowed malicious users to wreck other peoples servers. This was not a company decision but rather some dedicated programmers noticing a wide spread problem, patching it and releasing it to the users. The official website "maintained" by Microsoft for Halo does not include the v1.08 patch. Here's the quote from the thread on bungie.net:

I should also note that Bungie does not officially support Halo PC (which is owned by Microsoft, not Bungie) but since the build machine is under my desk and not at MS, I fixed these several bugs as a favor to the community. I can't promise any future support, nor can I open-source the code for community development.

Let me repeat that, Halo is no longer a supported product. New discs are not pressed for either platform. The fact that there are still quite a few boxes of the PC version floating around does not mean that should those copies eventually run out, more will be produced. The game is six years old. A set amount were produced. There is a finite number of valid keys that can be used and it's quite possible all of them have been exhausted. Reissuing old keys is not an option since duplicate keys can't play together. If the keys have been exhausted a further patch would be required.

This isn't them saying "nah-nah you can't have any." It's more like having a car that you really like but the company that made the parts has since retooled the assembly line and no longer makes the cars or the parts. Do people complain that it's not possible to buy a new 1964 Ford Mustang at dealer prices? The difference here is that in the digital plane, replicating an object is a trivial operation. Except for the all important unique item that does not allow full use if replicated: the CD-key. Just because it's easier to violate property rights doesn't change the facts. The unavailability of the product is not due to malicious intent but rather that it is not profitable enough for the company to continue producing said product and they gain no benefit by relinquishing their property rights of it.

Happy bungie day.

[Sparky]

Don't ask for the Game itself, ask if you can purchase a key for the game. You can use said key and download Halo UB.

But Modzy, he clearly states that they cannot sell CD keys either.

[Modzy]

Don't ask for the Game itself, ask if you can purchase a key for the game. You can use said key and download Halo UB.

But Modzy, he clearly states that they cannot sell CD keys either.

Then he lies. ;P

[Smythe]

Look just take this up with someone else. I torrented it because my family was pressed for money. And I know some people on here did as well... Honestly I don't give a shit about torrenting, it's not legal but Can anyone possibly say that they have never done anything illegal in their lives? Anything? Even the smallest thing like swearing in public, used a gun underage, or attempted to commit all their undying love to Taxi??? Nobody will deny to doing something illegal. We have all done something so just do it if it's not against your ethics.

On iPod so granmer and spelling = shit.

[Dirk Gently]

Macsoft no longer has the rights to the game. No code, no keys, no nothing. They can sell the UB still, and what I think the guy said was that he knew of a few copies (1. floating around, but he did specify that they (the company) could not sell them.

[Altimit01]

Look just take this up with someone else. I torrented it because my family was pressed for money. And I know some people on here did as well... Honestly I don't give a shit about torrenting, it's not legal but Can anyone possibly say that they have never done anything illegal in their lives? Anything? Even the smallest thing like swearing in public, used a gun underage, or attempted to commit all their undying love to Taxi??? Nobody will deny to doing something illegal. We have all done something so just do it if it's not against your ethics.

On iPod so granmer and spelling = shit.

This is not a justification. It's an excuse and an encouragement to similar using fallacious logic.

[Andor]

Look just take this up with someone else. I torrented it because my family was pressed for money. And I know some people on here did as well... Honestly I don't give a shit about torrenting, it's not legal but Can anyone possibly say that they have never done anything illegal in their lives? Anything? Even the smallest thing like swearing in public, used a gun underage, or attempted to commit all their undying love to Taxi??? Nobody will deny to doing something illegal. We have all done something so just do it if it's not against your ethics.

On iPod so granmer and spelling = shit.

This is not a justification. It's an excuse and an encouragement to similar using fallacious logic.

Perhaps not for you, but for olly12345 and I'm sure many others it is a perfect justification for "torrenting". And it's these people justifiying it to themselves that is the problem, not the general justification of it within the boundaries of society.
-A

[Altimit01]

The problem is using the logic that because everyone supposedly breaks the law at some point in time, then it's alright. If the reasons stated were enough for him then there wouldn't have been a need to encourage others to follow a similar path. Instead the entire argument suggests that to help him feel more at ease with his decision, he wants other people to do similar.

[Andor]

The problem is using the logic that because everyone supposedly breaks the law at some point in time, then it's alright. If the reasons stated were enough for him then there wouldn't have been a need to encourage others to follow a similar path. Instead the entire argument suggests that to help him feel more at ease with his decision, he wants other people to do similar.

Which I agree is definitively wrong. What I meant to say was that he is trying to justify his act, and not justifying the hypothetical acts of others.
-A

[TaxiService]

haei haei! you noticed that the copies available on stores are 4 + 45? that's 49 copies of halo! o.o fourtynine is seven times seven!! O.O seven is bungie's lucky number! D: DON'T YOU SEE PATTERNS EVERYWHERE?! AAARGGH



PS: your uploading will not affect anything. people downloaded halo off the web since the beginning of time!
if you didn't upload it, people would download it from somewhere else, so don't worry about it. if you feel bad for it, just take it off! no problem! there are plenty of torrents, or sites, or CE maps archivies where to get those files you need. ¬.¬

[Fuel]

OMG BUNGIE PLANNED IT O_O

[TaxiService]

Can anyone possibly say that they have never done anything illegal in their lives? Anything? Even the smallest thing like attempted to commit all their undying love to Taxi???

wait... what? o_O


says taxi, replacing the original topic with useless chain-spam.

[Smythe]

I am sure its illegal in some random country...

[Hostbot]

Its not illegal if its no longer supported.