[MT] Mod Testers

Everything about HD, MD, and their mods.

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2310
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Re: [MT] Mod Testers

Post by 2310 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:59 am

  1. I've added [MT] to my in-game name ... am I in?
  2. Sparky wrote:I also get the impression that it is too simple to teleport to the top of the map, grab a banshee, grab the flag and fly back to your base. Banshees and teleporters seem to unbalance and unhinge this scenario.
    I've actually done this quite a bit - although it's not just the banshees, there's also the Laser Warthog, although that's harder to use - but frequently fast enough to escape anyone who might be hunting me down after I've taken the flag. One possible solution - move teleporters outside the base interior, maybe under the platform in front of the bases? (this may make it easier for the opposing team to siege the base and prevent players from leaving the base, however) As it is, it's really hard to track flag carriers who teleport out, if I'm the only person defending the base.
  3. Sparky wrote: I also get the impression that both the middle of the map and the sides of the map opposite the small base, the base you can teleport to, are both underused.
    Moving/adding power weapons to the middle and side may compensate for this - as it is, the reasons I can think of to enter the middle/side are:
    • Overshield/Camo (rarely see anyone else use it)
    • Avoiding enemy Banshees that rarely look in the middle
    • Travelling by regular warthog (not frequent, I usually use laser hog or banshee for fast travel)

TaxiService
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Re: [MT] Mod Testers

Post by TaxiService » Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:26 pm

lol! you guys reviewed agoraphobia? I don't even remember what drove me to do that mod..!
/me gets nostalgic

Anyway hey, i'll have to test a new mod of mine with some people before releasing it to the public. May I ask you guys to playtest it with me one of these days? Do i apply here for this kind of thing?

EDIT: seems not!
welp, lemme know anyway if anyone votes for my crap to be played.
Actually when i first heard of mod testers i thought you guys were going to test mods, more than play released mods.
Last edited by TaxiService on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
  • TaxiService! Shitposting since 2007!
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Tucker933
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Re: [MT] Mod Testers

Post by Tucker933 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:35 pm

Sparky wrote:I met Tucker in-game and he said what he changed in the latest update to his mod. He swapped the (needler) and (plasma rifle) itmc coordinates and re-balanced the damage of the weapons. I like all his changes. I still have a problem with the rocks obstructing the blue team's right-side tunnel which lets them access the map's top teleporter directly to the red base. Since Tucker did mention that he does not have access to editing the sbsp (and he refused my initial offer to help change things), I played through Death Island and compared the map layout regarding player paths. I think that overall, the initial design of Death Island had the Red Team own the middle of the map by quickly accessing it via the right-side tunnel, and the Blue Team having balance to this by being able to quickly walk to the Red Team's topside teleporter exit through their own right-side tunnel, providing offense to their ability to both teleport there and quickly walk their using that spiral cliffside walkway on the right of the Red Team base. Phoenix removes the Blue Team's ability to provide that offense by blocking the Blue Team's right-side tunnel with rocks and a crashed pelican, giving the Red Team a distinct advantage in this mod; and if you'll notice, the red team usually wins while playing this mod in CTF mode. The Blue Team is still able to walk left in order to go the long way to the middle of the map, but this takes time and allows the Red Team enough time to camp in sniper positions at the tops of the canyon cliffs. Along the way to the middle of the map, the Blue Team also is spotted on their right side by the team-equally-accessible (scen-based) metallic base. In the time it takes the Blue Team to walk to the middle of the map, the Red Team could either teleport to the top and grab the sniper and teleport back down and be in a position to snipe the blue team member coming into the canyon area, or teleport to top and grab the sniper and walk at the top of the cliffs to be in a sniping position on the cliffs to snipe the blue team member walking into the canyon area below. This central advantage means the blue team does not have a strategic playing angle in the middle canyon areas and so the red team can easily walk to the right up the cliff to the top and be at the central position of the map: and as you know from playing chess, the center of the board is prime real estate. The Red Team owns the middle of the map while the rest of the red team can provide offense by driving around the shore. The Blue Team is left with two options: drive around the shore or race to grab the first banshee they can get. Both depend upon the gametype using vehicles, so in games where the gametype disables vehicles, I would suggest removing the teleporter entrances from the tops of the map and removing the rocks from the right tunnel of the blue base (put the rocket launcher inside the tunnel if you want, and allow some navigation room around the crashed pelican). What do you guys think: does the Red Team have a distinct advantage in being able to quickly access the middle of the map? Do you feel more free when playing on the Red Team and constrained while playing on the Blue Team? Do you get bored faster or feel at a disadvantage while playing on the Blue Team?
There is no imbalance here, the impact these revisions made on the map were taken into account since the first iteration. You notice ingame how there is no issue with the layout balance, just because you see something that doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean there's a problem. It plays fine in that regard.

Sparky wrote:I also get the impression that both the middle of the map and the sides of the map opposite the small base, the base you can teleport to, are both underused. I also get the impression that it is too simple to teleport to the top of the map, grab a banshee, grab the flag and fly back to your base. Banshees and teleporters seem to unbalance and unhinge this scenario.
I didn't design the BSP, take it up with Gearbox. For the gameplay this mod is focused on, this BSP was the best choice.

Sparky wrote:I get the feeling that a sniper version of the original Death Island would use the features of the map more than this combination of vehicles and teleporters.
As previously stated, this is a mod, not the original deathisland. If you want to play deathisland, no one is stopping you. The mod may not be perfect, nothing is, but it most certainly players better than the original map ever did.

I would also appreciate you didn't hang out in my server for hours and complain about the same personal disagreement you have with the mod over and over again like a broken record. I addressed your very specific opinion 4 times now, if you don't get the point I made, you should re-evaluate what you think you know about gameplay. Had you come by with less of an elitist attitude as if your word was the word of god, I might have been willing to share in a real discussion with you.
I've been at this a lot longer than you have, I have a proven record with my work to the point AAA developers have let me contribute real content to their project, my Halo works have been showcased on halo.bungie.org on three occasions, I created 9 of the top 10 Halo mods according to modhalo.net which contains the largest collection of mods from the Halo community, and I'm also currently leading an international development team on a project for the Unreal 4 Engine which is due to release in summer next year for Steam. I don't go around acting like I'm a know it all or push my personal preferences on other people if they don't agree with them. Just chill out dude, I don't agree with you, it's as simple as that, get over it. There was so reason to make it a scene, but you already have, so here I am.

rEsTnPeAcEz
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Re: [MT] Mod Testers

Post by rEsTnPeAcEz » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:48 pm

Change the clan name to [MA], lol. It stands for Mod Arguments lol hahahha
But I personally agree with you Tucker993, Sparky should "chill out".
This is mod reviews, there is not suppose to be arguments and "an absolute change". It should be reviews and suggestions. Not every mod is going to be perfect, there is going to be mistakes.
Anyway, I think the mod is fantastic.
- RIPz

Sparky
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Re: [MT] Mod Testers

Post by Sparky » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:19 am

[MT] members, please refrain from discussing the present mod with its author, according to Rule #1: "The mod author cannot participate in the review of their mod in any way, except to provide additional information about their mod." This prevents bias and the ability to influence the review process. You can see how this has already happened by the mod author showing argument with my comments. I apologize for the delay in stating this first rule, but now we have it and should abide by it henceforth. Thanks for understanding. This rule applies also when we review mods by [MT] members; whoever the mod author is, whether part of [MT] or not, they can only provide additional information about the mod but may not participate in the commentaries, reviews, and suggestions. This is why we have a dynamic Editor position and two video editors on the team, especially since I would not be able to review, provide comments upon, or suggest an MHR for my own mods due to obvious influence and bias. So the same goes in general with this rule.

We will not be able to consider or involve any comments Tucker933 has made about Phoenix 2 for its review, except for specific details he may have pointed out to us about the behavior in the mod. The mod's topic and what he mentioned to me about the Rod Gun (I think? The plasma pistol one.) having its primary fire pass through the base shields, as well as any other information about the functionality in gameplay he provided... everything except for his own comments on his mod... all that is helpful and appreciable for the review process so that we get a better idea of what the mod does.

Again, don't talk with the mod authors about their mods when they are being reviewed, and don't consider any comments or arguments they give regarding our discussions about their mod. They are only allowed to provide additional details about their mod.

Thanks!
Either you are groping for answers, or you are asking God and listening to Jesus.

rEsTnPeAcEz
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Re: [MT] Mod Testers

Post by rEsTnPeAcEz » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:13 pm

What if the "pass mark" of a review, what does the content have to have to be considered a good mod or not?

Sparky
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Re: [MT] Mod Testers

Post by Sparky » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:10 pm

The Masterchief Helmet Rank (MHR) is an average of the effectiveness of the mod in certain criteria, some of which is subjective. Each criterion is also an average based upon what we collectively discuss and put forth as votes to average based upon what we discuss. We're not at that step yet.

Would anyone else in the team like to present their comments on this mod? We've been playing it in Halo Mini Demo. Say which specific things you like about it, what comes to mind about the games you play in, and so forth. Feel free to ask other players what they like or would change in the mod. Details help, not general statements such as "I like it" or "I dislike it".

Most Halo Demo folks are not familiar with the base map, Death Island, so I am thinking of including footage of the base map cross-fading with footage of Phoenix 2. I recommend playing Death Island in Halo Full or Halo UB once, or even converting the map with Pearl to Halo Demo and playing it in Halo Demo PPC, just so you can see what the base map includes and get a better idea of what the mod author did here.

The mod author included some of these weapons with other mods of his, and it seems that the weapons are what this mod is focused upon, then the vehicles. The scen are used to block up canyon passageways and alter the design of the player paths, which I already stated I find less appropriate than what might have been done had map design been the main focus rather than weapons and vehicles. I'm waiting for other [MT] members to chime in and talk about some of these things or other topics about the mod.
Either you are groping for answers, or you are asking God and listening to Jesus.

rEsTnPeAcEz
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Re: [MT] Mod Testers

Post by rEsTnPeAcEz » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:56 pm

Isn't a need for us mod reviewers to see if the mod is balanced and if it looks nice?

nil
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Re: [MT] Mod Testers

Post by nil » Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:37 am

These "reviews" are just opinions (nothing surprising). Don't get the wrong impression that whatever comes about form it is "official."

Since you're allowing mod authors to decline the review process, consider having a rule where you cannot review a mod until you gain the author's permission. This may lead to less problems, and encourages reviewing and the creation of new mods, instead of older ones.
I am no longer active to Halo or MGM, and don't guarantee a response on the forums or through email. I will however linger around the discord room for general chatting. It's been fun!

Modzy
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Re: [MT] Mod Testers

Post by Modzy » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:07 pm

This whole thing is completely asinine.

Sparky
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Re: [MT] Mod Testers

Post by Sparky » Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:38 pm

Modzy wrote:This whole thing is completely asinine.
asinine |ˈasəˌnīn|
adjective
extremely stupid or foolish : Lydia ignored his asinine remark. See note at stupid .

If it is asinine because it seems based upon opinion, then I would say you are being hypocritical because I can say that your opinion is asinine that the team opinions are asinine, because in the same way your judgement of the situation is based upon opinion which by your definition thus makes it asinine. But you present your opinions on this forum while the Mod Testers team does not seek to present their opinions, contrary to nil's statement. Now don't troll or I'm going to end up taking Monoman up on his offer to hide the team's activities in a private sub-forum again.

nil, I would like us to encourage the playing older mods also, despite their incompatibility with HaloMD because they are Halo Demo versions of the map files. Part of this reviewing benefit is to put the spotlight on existing mods, whether older or newer. Getting permission to review a mod has two problems: first, they may never respond or take a prohibitively long time to respond, and second, people have a paranoid mentality sometimes where they would always decline a review of their mod because they think it is some basis of competition or standards judgement like a contest... which it is not. Instead, a mod review is an analysis of a mod and how effective it is in certain gameplay criteria. Saying, "this is fun" or "I don't like this mod" or any other form of entertainment commentary is not the role of Mod Testers team members but would be categorized as layman gamer dialogue. Because our analysis lacks opinion and because we separately present our suggestions from informed analysis as modders, the mod review process lacks absurdity. I don't want to ask the author's permission, but we could certainly attempt to let them know that their mod is being considered (or has been chosen) for review, and that they have an opportunity within one day to decline to have it reviewed.
Either you are groping for answers, or you are asking God and listening to Jesus.

rEsTnPeAcEz
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Re: [MT] Mod Testers

Post by rEsTnPeAcEz » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:02 pm

I thought that this group was to test mods and no review mods... That is actually the original reason why I joined this group.

Modzy
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Re: [MT] Mod Testers

Post by Modzy » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:57 am

If you're going to be entitled, high and mighty about even testing mods, I'd rather it be in its own hidden forum. Or not at all.

Your reviews aren't making much sense. You keep trying to make Tucker change things/suggest what to change. This is not the purpose of a review. The map was also not imbalanced to begin with. We've both filled that server and played with barely three people and the balancing is just fine.

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Re: [MT] Mod Testers

Post by Sparky » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:13 pm

rEsTnPeAcEz wrote:I thought that this group was to test mods and no review mods... That is actually the original reason why I joined this group.
There is no logical difference between testing mods and reviewing mods; it is like comparing inhaling to breathing. So what you are saying is that you want to inhale but not breathe, but inhaling is part of the breathing process.

Testing a mod does not mean simply playing a mod, but also discussing it. Discussing mods means taking notes about it, and these notes contribute to the mod review process. You have not yet provided your notes for Phoenix 2, but you have played it. So you have played the mod but have not yet tested it. The testing becomes more efficient and fun when [MT] team members test the mod together at the same time; then they can share their comments in-game and notes can be consolidated right there in the video footage of the gameplay. That is what is normally done, but we have not really met together as a team, privately, which would be more efficient than playing alongside other Halo gamers who are not in the team.
Modzy wrote:If you're going to be entitled, high and mighty about even testing mods, I'd rather it be in its own hidden forum. Or not at all.

Your reviews aren't making much sense. You keep trying to make Tucker change things/suggest what to change. This is not the purpose of a review. The map was also not imbalanced to begin with. We've both filled that server and played with barely three people and the balancing is just fine.
Modzy, I have said this repeatedly, over and over, ad nauseum, again and again: please go back to the first post in this topic and familiarize yourself with the PROCEDURES, then read what I wrote when I explained several times that the "Mod Review" that I posted for Phoenix 2 right here is my notes. MY. NOTES. It is a PROPOSED mod review that Tucker decided to comment about without knowing what I just said. You and he are becoming offended for absolutely no reason. You think somehow that MY NOTES are the final mod review for this mod. Check again.

I am still waiting for the rest of the Mod Testers team members to post their notes on this mod. If anyone decides to give me a hard time over anything here, I will simply ignore them because they chose to ignore the rules and procedures I specified in the first post.

To simplify for the simpleminded:
Mod Testers does the following.

- plays mods with other people in the Mod Testers team
- takes notes about the mods and shares their notes in this MGM forum topic
- makes comments about the mods and shares their comments in this MGM forum topic
- provides suggestions for improvement and shares their suggestions in this MGM forum topic
- in general, discusses the mod amongst themselves in this MGM forum topic
- rates how well the mod works in several gameplay criteria; the criteria have not yet been specified in this present topic but were developed in the private forum before
- provides a summary of notes, comments, suggestions and the rating alongside the edited footage of gameplay
- this summary with edited footage is proposed to the team and edited until it is decided a finished product
- this finished product is the official mod review for the mod

Now all you have seen so far in this forum topic are notes, which is point number 2 in the above list. So do not use harsh language because you assume that step 2 is actually step 9. I have explained this repeatedly... and also the fact that objectivity is obtained through the objective discussion of multiple mod testers' notes, comments and suggestions, which is why we are a team and not one person. And again, even one person's presented ideas are not inherently absurd or bad because they are presented by one person. You are incorrect about several things here, which is why you became frustrated and angry at me. I hope this clarification alleviates your frustrations.

To respond to you directly:
Modzy wrote:If you're going to be entitled, high and mighty about even testing mods, I'd rather it be in its own hidden forum. Or not at all. I do not appreciate someone who is not in Mod Testers giving me a hard time in the Mod Testers topic.

Your reviews aren't making much sense. If you understand what I explained above and re-read the topic from the first post, it should then make sense. You keep trying to make Tucker change things/suggest what to change. I am not trying to make Tucker change anything. I did suggest what to change. This is not the purpose of a review. Suggesting improvements is actually part of the mod review process, and suggestions for improvement are included in the final review, which incorporates the notes, comments, suggestions and discussions of all our team members. The map was also not imbalanced to begin with. We've both filled that server and played with barely three people and the balancing is just fine. I'm sorry, but any further discussion of the mod must be between the Mod Testers team members. If you would like to join the Mod Testers team, let us know here, and we will welcome your informed participation.
If you would like to join [MT], I will tell you the same thing I told you already: please read the PROCEDURES and RULES in the first topic. Then, being a member of [MT], your questions and suggestions for improvement will be welcomed.

But don't bother me anymore with this issue with Tucker933. I had a problem because I let myself discuss his mod with him more than I should have done, and I acted inappropriately until it dawned on me that I was breaking this previously implied and even specified rule. So I included the first two rules which I'm telling you to go read in the first post in this topic. And what I said is true: I am not trying to make Tucker change anything. So stop bothering me now, I already solved this problem days ago.

Again, I'm waiting on notes, comments and suggestions from our team members. Folks, please play the mod and take notes, then post your notes here and we'll put something together. The mod review process should not take longer than one week for each mod. I'm the only one who presented notes so far, and 2310 volleyed some comments off those notes. Go play and report back.
Either you are groping for answers, or you are asking God and listening to Jesus.

Modzy
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Re: [MT] Mod Testers

Post by Modzy » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:34 pm

If you didn't want people posting and protesting your "notes," then you should have either kept them to yourself, sent them to MT members via PM, or requested a subforum. At this point I am unable to take anything that comes out of this group seriously.

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