[COLLAB DISCUSSION] Blood Gulch Reality

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2310
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Re: [COLLAB DISCUSSION] Blood Gulch Reality

Post by 2310 » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:43 am

Falabmaja The 2nd wrote:dunno if this helps anyone,
but plasma weapons take about 3-5 shots for shield to go down, and 1-2 for armor. they also age and overheat quickly, with more spread.
the AR should be taking 10 shots to shield, 2 shots to armor and me more accurate.
pistol should be less accurate, take 5 or so shots to shield, and 1-2 for armor
sniper should be 1 hit kill.
shotgun should be more accurate, a shot from one side of a base to the other should kill.
grenades 1 shot kill at close range, frag have longer range, plasma have less.
rocket/plasma cannon should have less range
plasma should be a bit faster
only should be able to carry to clips with human weapons

thats imo, probably will need balancing
I thought somewhere you said that plasma weapons should take 10 shots to go down? Also, maybe we should reduce fire rate slightly, especially if we increase overheat rate. Age probably doesn't need to be changed, especially since the battery can't be changed unless you change weapon. Projectile speed can be slightly increased, not too much though or you won't be able to see the plasma and it won't be too realistic either.

ARs should affect shield less but more on armor, given the rounds used.

Remember that the pistol has a scope, but the barrel is shorter, so accuracy might have more acceleration so that it's more accurate when first fired, but a lot less accurate when fired after a few rounds. The rounds are explosive, so shield damage can be higher, and same armor damage, but remove headshots because pistol rounds aren't piercing.

Sniper should keep headshot damage, but slightly less shield damage since it doesn't have any special anti-shield capability, so that it will still have 1 headshot kill, but possibly 3 shots to body.

Shotgun should be more accurate but less armor damage, because the shotgun pellets aren't exactly armor piercing, and the Mjolnir suits are supposed to be completely immune to small arms fire.

Grenades should have bigger splash damage because it's supposed to be a frag nade, blasting shrapnel around. Plasma grenades are probably realistic enough ...

Rockets have a reasonable range, but it should have slightly less than the sniper rifle's accuracy, and it should have some weight, because that's a lot more realistic.

Plasma cannon should have the shaders added. (There's a tutorial somewhere.) It should have more damage, less fire rate, and less weight. Perhaps less heat loss so that you can't fire as fast or risk having to wait a long time.

Human weapon ammo should be reduced a little (how do you carry 10 pistol and 10 AR clips and 8 grenades at the same time, just on your belt?!) enough to force people to use weapons of dead enemies, but not too much that you'll run out of ammo before you can kill anyone within a reasonable amount of time. Also, human weapons should have decreased projectile speed (about 10 max, same as AR) as it's a little more realistic.

If you can figure out how to add the Jackal shield effect to cyborg shields (ripple looking effects, best seen when shot at with AR. Make it orange though, and don't make projectiles bounce off) that might be good as well.
Falabmaja The 2nd wrote:also, put the stun effect on the trigger jpt! on all weapons, and maybe some recoil.
You won't feel much when the bullets hit your shield. Well ... not much for a Spartan anyway. So not all weapons should have stun, maybe all plasma weapons, and perhaps fuel rod gun. Maybe flamethrower as well.

Recoil (push back and push up) should be on all human weapons. Plasma rifle doesn't have too much recoil, and plasma pistol probably even less. Not enough to be noticed by a Spartan. Flamethrowers also don't have recoil. Sniper should have H3 recoil effect mostly, and rocket should push you back noticeably. AR & pistol should only have mild pushback effect. Shotgun should have both slightly.
Sir Lumps wrote:The sniper is fine, 2 shot kill, one headshot kill. It isn't that powerful kay?
Don't double post either.
Agreed on both ...

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Re: [COLLAB DISCUSSION] Blood Gulch Reality

Post by Sugarlumps » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:44 am

I would point out that the plasma weapons already have stun, and that the speed of a bullet "10" is a lot.
Shaders are "skins", so the plasma cannon already have shaders, like all the other weapons o_O
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Re: [COLLAB DISCUSSION] Blood Gulch Reality

Post by 2310 » Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:05 am

Sir Lumps wrote:I would point out that the plasma weapons already have stun, and that the speed of a bullet "10" is a lot.
Shaders are "skins", so the plasma cannon already have shaders, like all the other weapons o_O
... I meant the stuff in schi that Bungie left out. It's in the Genesis tutorials, under weapon tutorials, called "Making the Fuel Rod Look Awesomer" by Taxi and Gvn.

Speed of a bullet 10 is a lot? AR is 10.8 by default. I'm saying the sniper rifle should be 10 like the AR and pistol bullets instead of 33.33337 or something like that. (Snipers in real life have to account for wind, bullet weight, and target speed. It's still simple with just a slightly slowed bullet.) It isn't too major, but a lot of minor changes can significantly affect gameplay.

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Re: [COLLAB DISCUSSION] Blood Gulch Reality

Post by Dittoz7 » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:33 am

2310 wrote: Sniper should keep headshot damage, but slightly less shield damage since it doesn't have any special anti-shield capability, so that it will still have 1 headshot kill, but possibly 3 shots to body.
Are you crazy!?
That's a forking armor-piercing round!!
ANY sniper bullet will pierce ANY body armor (as long as it's around .30 caliber)
If I read right, the Halo sniper rifle is a .50 caliber bullet, which will RIP YOUR FORKING ARM OFF half a second BEFORE it hits you!
even if you're using real-life sniper rifles,
The most widely used one against infantry is a .50 caliber (not the Barrett .50 caliber, that's anti-tank/armor/damn-near-anything)
even if you survive a shot, you won't just walk it off,
You will fall on your ass and get trampled.

Just some food-for-thought.
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Re: [COLLAB DISCUSSION] Blood Gulch Reality

Post by kiddten » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:55 am

2310 wrote:Post in witch he quoted my post
most/all of my weapon ideas were trying to make it balanced as well as realistic,we will need to make it meet half-way between your idea and mine, to preserve awesomeness.
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Re: [COLLAB DISCUSSION] Blood Gulch Reality

Post by wernarner84 » Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:09 pm

Vehicles report:
Pielogist has finished the Warthogs, and the Banshee is nearly complete. Are any other vehicles going to be included in the collab?
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Re: [COLLAB DISCUSSION] Blood Gulch Reality

Post by 2310 » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:54 pm

wernarner84 wrote:Vehicles report:
Pielogist has finished the Warthogs, and the Banshee is nearly complete. Are any other vehicles going to be included in the collab?
Yay! What did you to the hogs? (Vehicles covers everything that would be exported with the vehicle. Including weapon and bitmaps, so you're supposed to let them know if you want it or you're letting them do it. Lumps is in charge of hog bitmaps though.) We're including all vehicles in BG so that it'll be compatible with gametypes and stuff like that. So next might be the gun turret. I'm thinking it might be compatible with a FP view, which might make it easier to aim. Perhaps all the vehicles should have FP view ....
Dittoz7 wrote:
2310 wrote: Sniper should keep headshot damage, but slightly less shield damage since it doesn't have any special anti-shield capability, so that it will still have 1 headshot kill, but possibly 3 shots to body.
Are you crazy!?
That's a forking armor-piercing round!!
ANY sniper bullet will pierce ANY body armor (as long as it's around .30 caliber)
If I read right, the Halo sniper rifle is a .50 caliber bullet, which will RIP YOUR FORKING ARM OFF half a second BEFORE it hits you!
even if you're using real-life sniper rifles,
The most widely used one against infantry is a .50 caliber (not the Barrett .50 caliber, that's anti-tank/armor/damn-near-anything)
even if you survive a shot, you won't just walk it off,
You will fall on your ass and get trampled.

Just some food-for-thought.
halo.wikia.com wrote:The Sniper Rifle has one of the most advanced ammunition types in the game. It uses 14.5x114mm Armor Piercing, Fin Stabilized, Discarding Sabot rounds.
... Ok ... It's not exactly .50, but maybe we'll keep it at the minimum shield damage needed to kill with 2 body shots. Human weapons were never very good at piercing energy shields. After all, a Covie Elite Zealot can take 3 shots to the HEAD. :P
Falabmaja The 2nd wrote:
2310 wrote:Post in witch he quoted my post
most/all of my weapon ideas were trying to make it balanced as well as realistic,we will need to make it meet half-way between your idea and mine, to preserve awesomeness.
Ok! One hit kills are still never a good idea to have too many of. Rocket's already a fairly realistic one-hit kill.

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Re: [COLLAB DISCUSSION] Blood Gulch Reality

Post by Pielogist » Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:06 pm

2310 wrote:Yay! What did you to the hogs? (Vehicles covers everything that would be exported with the vehicle. Including weapon and bitmaps, so you're supposed to let them know if you want it or you're letting them do it. Lumps is in charge of hog bitmaps though.) We're including all vehicles in BG so that it'll be compatible with gametypes and stuff like that. So next might be the gun turret. I'm thinking it might be compatible with a FP view, which might make it easier to aim. Perhaps all the vehicles should have FP view ....
The hogs, they are slower when you start moving, but when you get up to full speed it's really fast. The turning is also reduced, you can't turn as much when moving slow, and you can turn more when going fast. When you get in the air it's really easy to get out of balance, but due to magic, you will most likely rotate 360 degrees and land perfectly. :D The chain gun has recoil and deals more damage. The rocket has it's speed increased but it only loads one rocket at a time. also... the side seat is 3rd person. i thought i would be easier on the guy that way...

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Re: [COLLAB DISCUSSION] Blood Gulch Reality

Post by 2310 » Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:32 pm

Pielogist~ wrote:[quote="2310]Yay! What did you to the hogs? (Vehicles covers everything that would be exported with the vehicle. Including weapon and bitmaps, so you're supposed to let them know if you want it or you're letting them do it. Lumps is in charge of hog bitmaps though.) We're including all vehicles in BG so that it'll be compatible with gametypes and stuff like that. So next might be the gun turret. I'm thinking it might be compatible with a FP view, which might make it easier to aim. Perhaps all the vehicles should have FP view ....
The hogs, they are slower when you start moving, but when you get up to full speed it's really fast. The turning is also reduced, you can't turn as much when moving slow, and you can turn more when going fast. When you get in the air it's really easy to get out of balance, but due to magic, you will most likely rotate 360 degrees and land perfectly. :D The chain gun has recoil and deals more damage. The rocket has it's speed increased but it only loads one rocket at a time. also... the side seat is 3rd person. i thought i would be easier on the guy that way...[/quote][/quote]

Ah ok. That seems to match better with their general use as a vehicle, especially with the jump capability seen in the first version of the Halo Wars trailer.

The rocket is the same rocket used for the rocket launcher, so you should probably leave that first unless you think it's really needed, in which case the final map will need a two rocket proj tags. Also, perhaps it should be two, because making it 1 will make it even worse than the handheld rocket launcher, even though it has unlimited ammo. It's always best to allow a weapon more than 1 shot, but you're the vehicle division and I leave it to you to make the final decision :D

Also, the vehicles should be destructible. It should be a way that ideally:
  1. Looks realistic
  2. CSS for people with the same map (i.e. can sync)
  3. Allows the vehicle to respawn
Thanks! :D

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Re: [COLLAB DISCUSSION] Blood Gulch Reality

Post by kiddten » Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:34 pm

to be css, has to use scripts methinks.
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Re: [COLLAB DISCUSSION] Blood Gulch Reality

Post by 2310 » Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:54 pm

Falabmaja The 2nd wrote:to be css, has to use scripts methinks.
If the vehicle explodes and flies up in the sky, it would be CSS, I think, but it might not respawn or something. I think somebody used that method once ...

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Re: [COLLAB DISCUSSION] Blood Gulch Reality

Post by kiddten » Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:03 pm

vehi damage states isnt CSS methinks. its that or effects anyways.
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Re: [COLLAB DISCUSSION] Blood Gulch Reality

Post by wernarner84 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:53 am

2310 wrote: If the vehicle explodes and flies up in the sky, it would be CSS, I think, but it might not respawn or something. I think somebody used that method once ...
That was me!
Also, the best way to get respawning, destructible vehicles that I know of might only work for the Banshee, but you need to get the Wraith destruction effects from the Silent Cartographer.... and it's not CSS.
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Re: [COLLAB DISCUSSION] Blood Gulch Reality

Post by Pielogist » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:03 am

don't get wraith destruction. Get tank explosion for CSS. and yea, it wouldn't respawn, unless you use scenario to spawn it, which messes everything up, as you lose space to place your weapons, and there are a lot of glitches surrounding scenario respawn, such as invisible vehicles, vehicles not falling to the ground... and such.

The destroyed vehicles would also have the blue hog glitch. To fix it you'd had to move the hog, and then that will mess up the game even more because you just removed the hog. And then if people were using the vehicles all the time, they would not disappear more vehicles would spawn causing too many vehicles.

It's very messy to get respawning destructible vehicles. Trust me. O__O

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Re: [COLLAB DISCUSSION] Blood Gulch Reality

Post by 2310 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:10 am

Pielogist~ wrote:don't get wraith destruction. Get tank explosion for CSS. and yea, it wouldn't respawn, unless you use scenario to spawn it, which messes everything up, as you lose space to place your weapons, and there are a lot of glitches surrounding scenario respawn, such as invisible vehicles, vehicles not falling to the ground... and such.

The destroyed vehicles would also have the blue hog glitch. To fix it you'd had to move the hog, and then that will mess up the game even more because you just removed the hog. And then if people were using the vehicles all the time, they would not disappear more vehicles would spawn causing too many vehicles.

It's very messy to get respawning destructible vehicles. Trust me. O__O
Ok ... how about non-respawning destructible vehicles?

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