Metaphysical revelations you've had about your own existence

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KoRnDoG
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Post by KoRnDoG » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:23 pm

k kool. but im confused as hell now. i mean.... not about my religion... but about what to do with people that are wrong (in my opinion). i dont want to preasure people into believing what i believe but i dont want to see them waste their lives either. so maybe ill just say nothing and let them do waht ever they want.
watch my avatar. after it loads theres this AWSOME head shot triple-kill i did. just wait for it....
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TaxiService
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Post by TaxiService » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:26 pm

KoRnDoG wrote:so maybe ill just say nothing and let them do waht ever they want.
everyone should do that :P
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KoRnDoG
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Post by KoRnDoG » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:40 pm

should we? O_o what if were wrong. something has to be right.
watch my avatar. after it loads theres this AWSOME head shot triple-kill i did. just wait for it....
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Kayar
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Post by Kayar » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:45 pm

The problem is belief. The idea of belief holds strongly in the human mind. People want to believe things, because it gives them security. The problem comes when people start to believe in different things. People get into arguments over these beliefs, which in turn become fights, then spread to become battles, then even wars. But believing in something is not wrong. Believing in something is human nature. It's a part of life. What you believe in is your choice, and, no matter who you are, you should be free to make that choice on your own. My choice is not to have a choice. But that's just me. Maybe I DO believe in something, maybe I don't. Accept me however you will. But know that everyone is entitled to what they believe in, even if it is nothing. That is a choice, it is their opinion, and it has many a time in history taken an actual war to sway people from their opinions and beliefs. Some say that war is human nature. I say human nature is to defend what you think is right, which can lead to war; but we are not simply uncivilized, barbaric assholes who must constantly fight. There is much good in the world as well, for those willing to search for it, or to ignore the bad. It is human nature to avoid the bad, which is why we have escapes such as video games, books, television.

Well, enough of that, I'm just ranting after all. :wink:
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P!ckoff
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Post by P!ckoff » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:41 pm

KoRnDoG wrote:most of the theories of today are pretty far out there.... who was it that said we were in the oven of death? pickoff? i dont remember lol. but the big bang is just as rediculous as that. the probability of gasses exploding and creating such a perfect environment is like 76547832654823764582736458237645873654283764537654276487647653576858765345436543y536754765464654765354365437654675484765476537563453 to 1. think about it. do you seriously think thats even relatively possible? u have a better chance of a tornado hitting a junkyard and making a ferrari. im mean... seriously..... thats crazy. i could never go along with such an absurd idea. its almost worse then the big oven theory. actually... it IS worse... the more i think about it. the whole evolution thing makes sense and i think it happened to an extent but cows deffinately did not evolve from whales. maybe climats or conditions forced cows to change their bahavior and minutely their physicality, but they definately did not come from any sort of whale or seahorse or.... tuna...... u have to admit there are some theories with evolution that are just way out of line. i also do not think we evolved from monkeys.... though we do share similar characteristics with primates. all in all evolution lacks sufficient evidence to prove its own existence. if you are atheist and believ in science, these occur to me to be the most common beliefs. what do u think taxi?
This is going to be a long one, please read it.


Look. I admit that it does seem improbable, but there is SO MUCH in the universe that the odds start to get better. Also, that amazing coincidence doesn't make me reject the idea, it make me all the more amazed that it actually happened. Lets go a little a deeper. Why do you so strongly believe that evolution is wrong? Or in fact, God exists? Very few people have had an actual spiritual experiance. Do you know why? Because thats what your parents told you. And their parents told them. And so on. And what is preached to you from a pedestal 6-8 times a month. You accept what they tell you. Heres the point: What if they were wrong! Not that they are liars, but that is simply what they have heard from their parents, from their pastor.

And while I am on it, where does that trail back lead? You would say that it leads back to jesus, the son of god. Here's something: What if Jesus was mental? Insane? What if it all was cooked up in an insane person's mind? (Please, I am not saying this is true, it is just a possibility--and frankly, it is just as likely as the son of god, and much more to me) And, at that time, people were so deeply ingrained in religion as the only answer to their more primitive minds of the world's great mysteries, that they believed what he said. Hey, he was a great speaker, a great presence. You know what that reminds me of? Kris Kringle. As in the book/movie. He was delusioned, but his delusion so made him feel he was Santa that a lot of people believed him.

There seem to have been a lot of these. Almost every religion had one. But do know why there are no more serious religions being started? Because people's crazy claims are known to be illogical, or disproven, by science.

Science is not a religion. It is not something you "believe" in. It is fact. A proven scientific concept is something that cannot be disputed, until the capability exists to disprove it. Yet people do. Why? Because they heard it from their minister. Or their parents. Guess what? They don't have the ability to disprove it. But they tell you anyway. Because that what their minister said, and their parents. It is based on nothing solid. Blind faith.

Science is not exciting the way religion can be, it is less interesting for most. But it is not the words of a human, who may or may not have been telling the truth. It is verifyable, proven, repeatable fact. You may be wondering about theories (unproven concepts, such as evolution). Unlike religions, science bases their theories on the absolute best cold, hard data they have (btw, evolution has an TON of data supporting it). You said the big bang is way too far out. There is actually good data of that. Since the universe has been and is and will be expanding, and you draw the time back, it leads to one point. Plus the fact that all the microwave electromagnetic energy that should have to be there for it to check out is all there. Do you have a better answer? What reason do you have for it? What supports your theory? If you are drawing a blank right now, then the big bang should make more sense to you. Scientists would never, for example, say that the world was created only a few thousand years ago. Or Jesus was the son of god. Or that all animals and humans were all created as they are today. Or anything of that sort. There is no data to represent any of that that. And you know what? If more data comes along, they readily adapt that theory. Does religion do that? No. Infact, they used to kill people for attempting it. Why do you not believe in evolution? Your religion says it is not true. That part of the religion was created over 2,000 years ago. No proof. No scientific observations. Don't you think its time to update that theory of theirs? Adapt to the best data we have. But they don't. Why? Why, why why? And even if they don't think that it is true, WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU TRY TO STOP YOUNG, IMPRESSIONABLE PEOPLE FROM LEARNING IT, the absolute, most solid reason we have??? Give them a chance to make their OWN decisions on what is the truth! It kills me to see that they want creationalism, which is based on 4,000+ year old opinions, in place of science, which is the forefront of human knowledge?

Also, the church seems to be wreaking havoc on our country. A guy who doesn't believe in evolution, who is against rape victims being able to have an abortion, who will fight against stem sell research, and is against gay marriage just won the Iowa caucuses. Just because thats what his religion says. Has he thought what other religions think? Has he thought that he might be wrong? Has he though that the ideas he has taken as truth without proof will be making people less happy (gay marriage)? That they will hurt, kill people (stem cell research)? Destroy families (abortion)? Do you think that he will support biology if he doesn't believe in evolution? Archeology if he thinks the earth is only a few thousand years old? Astronomy if he thinks the universe has, is, and always will be the same? Because he refuses to see the other, proveable, repeatable side of the world? This is not the government we wanted when we started the country (separation of church and state), but it seems to be what we are getting.

Just today a good friend of mine said that he wants gays to be happy anyway they can, but doesn't want gays to marry because it goes against his religion. Isn't that a little twisted? A little wrong? And anyway, why does religion touch on that anyway?

Also, sometimes it clouds people's views. Did you know that the embryonic stem cells they would use would be THROWN AWAY AND WASTED otherwise? Yet, it could save countless lives. But their religion has pulled the gauss over their eyes.

Many people still feel that they want to continue being religious in spite of all of this, and that is fine. What is not fine is their attempting to convert others and block forward thinking. Just think about all of this. Give yourself a reality check. What do you believe, and why? Are there better options?


My personal view on religion, as an atheist: Religion was a great way to explain the great mysteries of life for many millennia, but now there is a better way to do the same thing that causes lots less problems.
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Post by TaxiService @ school » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:47 pm

*claps hands*

that's it.

what i was trying to say.


...thanks pickoff.




so: you may belive in god, and i may belive in science, but you/i must not try to "convert" me/you.

and, if we belive different stuff, there is no reason to kill ourselves!
it's fucking hateful how religions bringed destruction and death in all the world, and how they still destroys and kills people (see islam and palestine?)


... .

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Post by P!ckoff » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:01 am

You are welcome.
Last edited by P!ckoff on Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Kayar
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Post by Kayar » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:19 am

Kayar wrote:The problem is belief. The idea of belief holds strongly in the human mind. People want to believe things, because it gives them security. The problem comes when people start to believe in different things. People get into arguments over these beliefs, which in turn become fights, then spread to become battles, then even wars. But believing in something is not wrong. Believing in something is human nature. It's a part of life. What you believe in is your choice, and, no matter who you are, you should be free to make that choice on your own. My choice is not to have a choice. But that's just me. Maybe I DO believe in something, maybe I don't. Accept me however you will. But know that everyone is entitled to what they believe in, even if it is nothing. That is a choice, it is their opinion, and it has many a time in history taken an actual war to sway people from their opinions and beliefs. Some say that war is human nature. I say human nature is to defend what you think is right, which can lead to war; but we are not simply uncivilized, barbaric assholes who must constantly fight. There is much good in the world as well, for those willing to search for it, or to ignore the bad. It is human nature to avoid the bad, which is why we have escapes such as video games, books, television.

Well, enough of that, I'm just ranting after all. :wink:
Did you read any of this? My point was that it's stupid to argue about this. Thus Pickoff completely ignored me and went ahead to give a long, somewhat harsh post that may or may not inflame KornDog to retaliate in some way, considering Pickoff just denounced his religion to an extent, thus starting a further argument that will be even more pointless and probably annoying on both sides than the last.

People die for their beliefs. Don't put them in a position where they are going to.
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P!ckoff
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Post by P!ckoff » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:51 pm

That is what makes me angry... People will be so into their religion that they are willing to kill others, or even themselves. Why? Why, why why? The whole problem with the middle east right now. Differing religions. John Lennon was right, you know. Can we all just get along? And how is religion helping with that?


And I am harsh because I am angry. Not at anyone in particular, or any particular religion. Just that religion continues to be a very strong force in the world today, and I don't think it is helping anything. Am I wrong?


I am happy with people believing what they believe. I am not happy with people trying to force others to believe that, attempts to block forward thinking, and the rift it has caused everywhere.
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Kayar
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Post by Kayar » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:58 pm

This has very little, if anything, to do with the subject of the topic. The troll who made this topic would be very proud.
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P!ckoff
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Post by P!ckoff » Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:50 pm

Not many people call this guy a troll. Except himself.

Heh. I think he was just bored.
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draconic74
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Post by draconic74 » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:51 pm

If

I think, therefore I am.

works, then I dont exist. Yay for me.
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P!ckoff
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Post by P!ckoff » Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:37 pm

Prove that you are thinking.

Eh? Tough, no?
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