GR - Still good after all this time!

[[BIG] Ranger]

While cleaning out my attic at the weekend I found my old Ghost Recon CD and thought 'what the hell' and installed it on my Mac.

Wow...You know it's STILL good isn't it!

It's been a long, long time since I played GR - having long since changed over my computer gaming to a PC I built especially for the purpose.

Just recently I have been spnding a lot of time on Novalogic's 'Joint Operations', so it was interesting to compare the two.

Joint Ops is kinda what I always imagined Ghost Recon 2 would be like - it has all those things we wanted to improve in GR...

It has vehicles (APCs, Jeeps, helicopters and boats) you can drive around in. It has huge multiplayer maps (at least 10 x the size of a GR map). It has fantastic multiplayer server support - with games you can 'jump into' mid-game (no waiting in line!). And up to 150 players in a game at the same time!

I could go on - but funnily enough, after playing JO for a while ( - it's hugely popular btw - ) I kinda felt a little disappointed after a while.

Re-installing Ghost Recon at the weekend reminded me just what a brilliant game GR is, and highlighted some of the things that are wrong with the newer Joint Operations.

There is a depth to the maps on Ghost Recon that makes you believe that you are in a war zone. Joint Operations maps, while pretty and huge (I mean REALLY huge!) are a little 2 dimensional and repetative.

Joint Operations - to me - feels more like a cross between Ghost Recon and Unreal Tournament, with multiplayer games turning into huge death matches with little recourse to real military strategy.

(I have seen a small group of a dozen or so clan members, who do take the team play seriously, wipe the floor with vastly superior numbers - simply because no one works as a team.)

Yes, the graphics in Ghost Recon are showing thier age, and yes the server side multiplayer set-up is crude when compared to Joint Operations. But I still got a big kick out of returning (via 'GameRanger') to one of the few remaining GR servers and having a good session.

Sadly the number of GR servers on GameRanger is diminishing compared to the good old days when you could expect twenty or more servers running every type of GR multiplayer mode. And if you are a GR Co-op fan, prepare to be disappointed as all servers appear to be of the team deathmatch variety...

But it was a most enjoyable weekend - that left me thinking that when Ghost Recon 2 finally reaches the Mac, I really must buy a faster machine!

[Selix]

Isn't JointOps that game with the really big Mechs that you can have two people in? One on gunner and one driving (both of whom have weapons); and you need a special ranking to drive but just enough to just run the gun?

I think I saw that at a friends house..once I get my PC up and running I plan on getting that and many MANY other games....such as Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow; and other misc. games.

Hopefully, my headset will work with my PC when it's finished.

[Vir2L™]

..... And if you are a GR Co-op fan, prepare to be disappointed as all servers appear to be of the team deathmatch variety...

Not true,

We at SOG have at least one coop room up a day, and if we don't some other coop junkies do.... though most of the time we are hosting 3rd party MODs.

Coop still lives.

As far as JO, i would like to try it. I've heard mixed reviews about it, but most of the time they are good responses. Sounds like Battlefield 1942, but maybe more tactical?

[[BIG] Ranger]

Isn't JointOps that game with the really big Mechs that you can have two people in?

Nope...

Here's a link to the Novalogic Joint Ops site: http://www.novalogic.com/games.asp?GameKey=JOTR

in effect, think of a VERY large scale Ghost Recon, but add the ability to pilot helicopter gunships, drive armoured carriers and gunboats!

The maps are HUGE - big enough so that several smaller scale battles can be going on at the same time!

The gameplay is a bit like siege, command & control or Hamburger Hill - but (and here's teh good part) - there is so much going on that you needn't get involved in the main action if you don't want.

The points system that JO uses not only awards you 'kills' - as in Ghost Recon - but gives you points if you take over a bunker, 'medic' wounded players or 'Assist' other players by transporting them to the battle zone. So there are several ways to win!!!

- A nice side-effect of this is that you can play the game as if it were a solo deathmatch (just trying to rank up kills) or you can play it like a co-op and help your team-mates. It's up to you! -

I have actually won a big game with NO kills at all - I was a medic and helped save my team members by reviving them.

Like Ghost Recon there are several 'specialisms' - rifleman, engineer, sniper....BUT the added medic choice really perks up the game.

The maps are pure fun, and only pretend to be realistic - they are often island chains so there are plenty of airborn/seaborn assaults!

Using a PC (no Mac version yet) I use X-Fire chat (like ICQ) to link up with my team-mates, and 'Ventrillo' to voice chat inside the game (both free).

If you work as a team you can really hammer the opposition - an you need to, as the central game goal is to take over bunkers, so you have to co-ordinate attacks. (Bunkers can be heavily defended with MGs and grenade launchers - plus APCs with 20mmm 0r 30mm cannon!)

Everyone has thier favourite kit - I like to be an engineer armed with anti-tank missles - but sniping (as usual) is a big favourite.

Other improvements over Ghost Recon are the fact you can carry several types of grenade, including Flash-bangs.

...And flying a helicopter is a real hoot! (And easy - this is no flight sim!).

The 'Escalation' exapnsion pack adds several new vehicles, including Apache helicopters and tanks.

Well, there you go - i you have access to a PC give it a go.

I really hope Ghost Recon 2 turns out to be as much fun - but it will be a while before it gets to the Mac.
-----------------------------------------

Postscript: While Mac gamers will be stuck for a time yet playing Ghost Recon I did notice that 'Blackhawk Down' is coming to the Mac soon. This is another Novalogic game, and the game they did before they brought out 'Joint Operations' - so we may still se Joint Ops on the Mac. I hope so!

[LordLothar]

ya.. i saw joint ops at wal mart a long while back and it looked really awesome but i dont have a good enough comp for it.. and im good with just playing the games i have now.. and im getting some more games from my brother anyways.. which reminds me has anyone heard of iron storm

[Guest]

We at SOG have at least one coop room up a day, and if we don't some other coop junkies do.... though most of the time we are hosting 3rd party MODs.

Coop still lives.

Nice to hear that! - Tel me, do you host your servers via 'GameRanger' of just on the Net?

I mostly play on GameRanger for convinience - and haven't ventured into other INternet servers as I find it hard to tell what's what (there are a host of odd mods out there too).

But I would love to meet up with some other Co-op junkies...Teamwork rocks!

[Selix]

I still don't understand why people don't register/log in.
Yeah sure, if you're gonna raz someone and you don't wanna be known..that's cool.But posting normal topics, please! No matter what, when you post, or even look at the site, Mono and any other admin can see your IP. =o THEY SEE MY IP!!!!211!@!@!@ NOT THAT!@!#@!!@!@!

Heh, registering isn't tough, takes liek 2-3 minutes and then a few more to finish.

Oh, and I see Coop missions goin on all the time on GhR; just keep your eyes open.

[Dark uk]

I guess maybe the thing that keeps Ghr good over the 2 odd years is that is a thinking game rather than a repetitive running into the middle of the map guns blazing game.

Im sure there are many other reasons too.

[[BIG] Ranger]

Yep...I think you are right. I just keep coming back to Ghost Recon.

Everything is just right, and while there are a few things we probably wish were added, there is nothing really missing to the basic game.

The maps are superb, the gameplay slick, the weapon load-outs nicely ballanced (and if you don't think so, just download Navy Seals!) and the graphics are just right (not brilliant, but just right).

I have been banging on about 'Joint Operations' on the PC a lot on this forum - but in all honesty, while the graphics are slightly better (it's a newer game) and there are vehicles to drive or fly, gameplay is not that much better (until you get to the larger 150 person games - then its just mayhem), and in some ways the larger scale of the maps and players actually detracts from the sense of being in a real warzone (often the game degeneates into a huge 'Unreal Tournament' type deathmatch, with little or no teamplay or tactics).

By the time GR2 finally hits the Mac GR1 will be about 3 years old!!! But it will still be enjoyable....

In fact I would go as far to say that expect to have BOTH games on your machine for a while - at least until the modders port over the best mods. PLUS I bet the spec will push even the higher G5s to the limit!

[Anyone else remember when Quake III came out for the PC? Everyone rushed out to buy it after a long wait, only to find that it didn't play as fast or as smoothly online as Quake II did! Within a month a lot of people had reverted to Quake II to play online until they could afford to upgrade their PCs!!!! LOL]

[Monoman]

Ranger, you should try out Operation: Flashpoint. It is an older game but newer than Ghost Recon. From what I have read and seen it is more like an updated Ghost Recon. There are tons of cool mods out for it and it has vehicles. Too bad they never brought that game to Mac, it would of easily been a replacement for Ghost Recon.

[[BIG] Ranger]

Cheers Monoman....

Have heard about Op. Flashpoint before and it sounds great - well worth a try (especially as it's a budget game now).

To be honest there are getting to be so many military tactical FPSs out there now (for the PC that is). Sometimes I don't know where to start when I'm in my local game store....

I got Joint Ops because they have a clan in the new office that I work in (I played Ghost Recon for the same reason).

I now have a long list of games I want to try out, but not many are as well supported and modded as Ghost Recon, though 'Battlefield 2' looks interesting .

[Monoman]

The Battlefield series seems to be supported and modded quite well. Although, you don't see alot of little mods out for it as you did with Ghost Recon. I think that comes with how big the multiplayer game enviroment is.

[[BIG] Ranger]

Yep...

There's a lot to be said for Ghost Recon having small environments - I think it has encouraged people to become 'creative' with the modding!



Joint Ops is - as I have said - HUGE. Coming from Ghost Recon I couldn't get over just how huge it is....You actually NEED the helicopters to get around it's so big.

This is nice sometimes as it means several battles can be going on at the same time. It also gives snipers tremendeous scope (forgive the pun) for flanking...As unlike GR/GRd you don't hit the edge of the map any time soon!

(I haven't even been to the edge of a JO map yet!)

On the other hand - however - it is a complete pain in the butt when you get killed and end up returning to the 'X' (home) base - you've miles to go to get back to the action! - A complete pain when all the helicopters and jeeps have gone!



The upshot of all this is that there are hardly any mods for JO - which means you can get very bored with the basic kit load-out very soon. A rifleman, for example, only has the choice between the following rifles:

Joint Ops team: M4 or M16
Terrorist: AK47 or AK 74

...Though, unlike GR you do get a good set of secondary weapons and 'nades. And of course the ability to jump into an APC (with 20mm gun) adds a certain spice!