HaloMD

Everything about HD, MD, and their mods.

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WaeV
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Re: HaloMD

Post by WaeV » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:47 am

Dirk Gently wrote:how the design patterns work on OS X
Yeah, I just said something similar on OC. I like the Halo styling, since it feels homier than a plain window, but I think the dark window titles are reserved for HUD controls with OS X programs. It looked fine in silver; there's no need to make it black.

"Found 4 Games" should be in white, though.
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nil
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Re: HaloMD

Post by nil » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:31 pm

Another mockup / proof of concept (coloring/transparency could possibly be better):

Image

I prefer starting with a native approach and theming it rather than starting with gamespy graphics and customizing it to be native. I agree with dirk that mixing native elements in a UI like samuco's will be confusing. I also don't want the nib file to be strange to modify with a bunch of image views and whatever else. The original problem is that the current interface is a little bland. The solution doesn't imply we should imitate gamespy.

Btw, don't use Xcode 5. It's too buggy currently and in my experience is great at destroying nibs. And certainly don't make nibs only editable by it.
I am no longer active to Halo or MGM, and don't guarantee a response on the forums or through email. I will however linger around the discord room for general chatting. It's been fun!

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Re: HaloMD

Post by WaeV » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:57 pm

nil wrote:gamespy graphics
But it's classic!

Although I like your mockup, too. Being able to select different themes is something to consider.
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Re: HaloMD

Post by Samuco » Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:36 pm

WaeV wrote: Yeah, I just said something similar on OC. I like the Halo styling, since it feels homier than a plain window, but I think the dark window titles are reserved for HUD controls with OS X programs. It looked fine in silver; there's no need to make it black.

"Found 4 Games" should be in white, though.
"You can also use the “HUD” appearance, but this is generally only suited to an app that uses a dark UI and enables an immersive, media-centric experience." - Apple Interface Guidelines
nil wrote:Another mockup / proof of concept (coloring/transparency could possibly be better):
Image

I prefer starting with a native approach and theming it rather than starting with gamespy graphics and customizing it to be native. I agree with dirk that mixing native elements in a UI like samuco's will be confusing. I also don't want the nib file to be strange to modify with a bunch of image views and whatever else. The original problem is that the current interface is a little bland. The solution doesn't imply we should imitate gamespy.

Btw, don't use Xcode 5. It's too buggy currently and in my experience is great at destroying nibs. And certainly don't make nibs only editable by it.
That looks awful and I actually prefer your original one over it. I'm not mixing native elements (like in your mockup) in my UI except maybe text which isn't really unique to OS X.
I changed the xib to compatible with Xcode 4.6.

Taxi redid the elements of the HUD. Results:
Image

Download: http://www.samuco.net/halomd/HaloMD.zip

nil
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Re: HaloMD

Post by nil » Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:48 pm

That looks awful and I actually prefer your original one over it. I'm not mixing native elements (like in your mockup) in my UI except maybe text which isn't really unique to OS X.
What about tooltips? Which button responds to hitting return? What about sheet windows, dialog windows? What about the chat room, game inspector, or if I decide to add another window/component in the future? I also think it gives the idea that it discourages using command hotkeys, the menu bar, and such because it looks like the game which people will find out it isn't once they start using it.

I think Waev is suggesting you to change the titlebar to normal possibly without any written title.

The way you think my mockup is not good enough compared to the original is similar to how I look at this one.

[edited].
Last edited by nil on Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dirk Gently
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Re: HaloMD

Post by Dirk Gently » Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:28 pm

Please keep the original nil, the transparency crap is no good.

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Re: HaloMD

Post by TaxiService » Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:04 pm

I agree with dirk. Not meant as an offense or anything but i think that that half transparent thing is kinda shitty..!


Samuco: If you look closely there are still some visual bugs with the GUI. : \ like the bottom-left and top-right corners. Also there must be something wrong in what I did. I don't really know how to do these things yet. :​P
Also, try using logo 1 or 2 with 100% opacity and ask the guys that use this UI what they think!
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WaeV
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Re: HaloMD

Post by WaeV » Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:04 pm

nil wrote:I think WaeV is suggesting you to change the titlebar to normal possibly without any written title.
Just put it back the way it was: http://www.samuco.net/halomd/md6.png

I'm not sure what the OS X conventions are - is it kosher to omit window titles? I don't personally prefer one way or the other.

Also, what is the chat bubble in the upper right of the titlebar?
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Re: HaloMD

Post by Dead Site » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:56 pm

may someone make the forum link on halomd.net go to http://macgamingmods.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=40 instead
[url=steam://friends/add/76561198023999718]Image[/url]

nil
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Re: HaloMD

Post by nil » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:22 am

Cronos Dage wrote:may someone make the forum link on halomd.net go to http://macgamingmods.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=40 instead
I think redirecting to main forum is better and more encourages we're not just a Halo board. Aside from that, the Halo section should not be difficult to find on the main forum.
I am no longer active to Halo or MGM, and don't guarantee a response on the forums or through email. I will however linger around the discord room for general chatting. It's been fun!

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Re: HaloMD

Post by Sparky » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:54 pm

I know you folks will not listen to me, but I'll say it anyway, just for the record. Everyone must change their demeanor from critical to encouraging in order to show this MGM community is inviting and welcoming of all participant's contributions and ideas. This reason alone, the demeanor of our members being harshly over-critical rather than supportive and encouraging, is why people refuse to register here at MGM. Most of the reception of hard work is poor. If you have a suggestion, present your idea simply and refrain from being critical or demeaning of what the other person has spent time doing.

For example:

Encouraging with Succinct Suggestions: I think the UI should more closely resemble the appearance of an OS X window so that OS X interface characteristics are suggested to exist also based upon the user's experience with other OS X windows.

Discouraging without Suggestion: That looks horrible, I disagree entirely with what you're doing.

Not only do our over-critical responses prevent prospective members from participating, but they cause existing hard-working members, like Samuco (and myself) to leave the community outright. Those who stick around for whatever reason, like nil and myself, still suffer discouragement, which only ends up harming the progress of this community and the development of new tools which benefit all the Halo communities.

The demeanor of being unsupportive and over-critical essentially ostracizes the best contributors to this game and to all of Halo's player and modder and developer communities.
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Re: HaloMD

Post by TaxiService » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:55 am

I don't think anybody made destructive criticism. It was Samuco that interpreted our criticism in a way that discouraged himself*.
To me, it seemed that in the end he simply gave up on working on it because nil didn't want to add a feature like that, and because he was too lazy to do stuff precisely.

I mean, I liked the idea! The first GUI he made had half-assed parts because he probably just wanted to prove a concept. And it worked! So I proposed him to make some preciser GUI elements for him to use. He gladly accepted and got them, but didn't bother actually tuning their relative sizes (see: lower left corner) or fixing some other GUI bugs/bad things that we told him about in a constructive manner! (the buttons don't line up with the internal box at minimum window width, the status text shouldn't just disappear, the font used for the buttons should not be that one, etc)

Like, at least I believed this was something cool. And i believed that, if worked on properly, it could be pretty awesome! The point is that Samuco didn't bother to work on it properly! And he finally gave up when heard that nil wouldn't add this thing to HaloMD.

But who knows? Maybe if he did work on it properly and did a precise job, listening to constructive advice from actual GUI designers instead of immaturely turning away, then maybe nil would've had more consideration for this GUI. : \



(Sparky i'm not saying this stuff only to go against you or anything silly like that, huh!! I'm just pointing out what i think happened, since i was there when it did. I've got the chatlogs saved too.)
(also nil being so much against having options in general is kind of a finger in the butt too)

EDIT: edited "him" with "himself*".
Last edited by TaxiService on Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dirk Gently
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Re: HaloMD

Post by Dirk Gently » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:40 am

Sparky has a point.

TaxiService
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Re: HaloMD

Post by TaxiService » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:51 am

I agree! All i'm saying is that I don't remember treating him with destructive criticism! Au contraire! I literally made sure to ensure Sam that my criticism was constructive by preceding or succeeding most if not all of my statements with something along the lines of "yo, this isn't meant to hurt your feelings, it's just advice for how to make things look and work better for my point of view".

All I claim is that Samuco gave everything up a little too easily. Of course he must've been mistreated and stuff, but he hasn't able to be above it and understand why such criticism was given to him.
Bad, destructive criticism is not worthy of consideration because it's meant only to discourage you, and -although not easy- you shouldn't be discouraged by it because it's just a baseless offence toward you.

I'm not saying Samuco is the only one at fault. Idk what happened between you guys and him when i wasn't around, obviously.
I think that you guys were too harsh on him, and that he quitted too easily.

But yo these are just probably-inappropriate opinions from a guy that had marginally anything to do with this thing. So yeah.



PS: And yo, i understand Samuco's frustration! I mean, it's actually normal to want to leave in such a situation, from his current point of view! I don't mean to fault him for how he acted. I just think he'll realize that leaving Halo over such a thing was stupid as he grows up a little more.

I don't mean to sound like a seasoned know-it-all or anything like that. I'm just stating my opinions because we are discussing this.

PPS: and of course, y-you guys could also try not being so snob!!!!
I mean, you know i love you all. I'm saying that some of your behaviours could hurt some people. Samuco has been an example.

EDIT: PPPS:
>I'm saying that some of your behaviours could hurt some people
I know I must've hurt you too Sparky. I... I'm really sorry. ◡⁔◡
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Re: HaloMD

Post by Sparky » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:28 am

To clarify the main gist of what I said, it is simply this: if you have an idea or suggestion to present, I encourage the presentation of it concisely and simply. There is a saying, "Say what you need to say, and nothing more."

Taxi, your English skills are coming along very well, and I will use what you said to illustrate this idea. You made a few points which might more succinctly be presented like this:
TaxiService wrote:I intended to provide constructive criticism. I don't know the details of why he was offended or quit, but I think we were too harsh on him and maybe also he quit too soon. I understand that he has other responsibilities, yet I would have preferred he stayed with this forum community. We could have shown him more respect and I could have better conveyed my love and appreciation for him. We must take care not to harm each other.

I have some additional comments on the GUI he presented for HaloMD, and I would have hoped he would have considered them and continued developing something nice for us to use. Samuco presented the concept, and I liked his idea! I suggested that he refine the GUI elements, which he did. Now I would like the relative sizes to be tuned (see the lower left corner), the buttons to line up with the internal box when the window width is at its minimum, the status text to remain visible rather than disappearing and the buttons' font to be different from what they are now.

I think this is cool and holds a lot of potential to become awesome! I hope Samuco keeps working on this properly when he is able, and not give up even though nil said that he would not like to add this to HaloMD (yet).
Does this accurately and concisely convey what you intended, Taxi?
Sparky wrote:This reason alone, the demeanor of our members being harshly over-critical rather than supportive and encouraging, is why people refuse to register here at MGM.
This is speculative but probable.
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